GHOSTS Post-Mortem: Joe Port and Joe Wiseman on Trouble for Jay, that Romantic Twist, and More - Give Me My Remote : Give Me My Remote

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GHOSTS Post-Mortem: Joe Port and Joe Wiseman on Trouble for Jay, that Romantic Twist, and More

May 8, 2025 by  

Ghosts Jay deal with the devil

“The Devil Went Down to Woodstone” – Sam and Jay host a big party for the launch of Sam and Isaac’s vampire book, on the fourth season finale of CBS Original series GHOSTS, Thursday, May 8 (8:30-9:00 PM, ET/PT) on the CBS Television Network, and streaming on Paramount+ (live and on demand for Paramount+ with SHOWTIME subscribers, or on demand for Paramount+ Essential subscribers the day after the episode airs)*. Mary Holland (Patience), Punam Patel (Bela) and Matt Walsh (Elias Woodstone) return as guest stars. Pictured (L-R): Matt Walsh as Elias Woodstone. Photo: Bertrand Calmeau/CBS ©2025 CBS Broadcasting, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

[Warning: This post contains spoilers for the Thursday, May 8 season finale of GHOSTS.]

Jay (Utkarsh Ambudkar) was delighted when he learned his restaurant was in contention for a cover story on the Thursday, May 8 episode of GHOSTS…but, naturally, there was a twist.

When the food editor of New York Mag noted it was actually Jay’s publicist who had brought the place to their attention, he confessed to Sam that he had signed with a rep, but he was embarrassed about it. Elias (Matt Walsh) popped up, and the ghosts shared that he had been promoted in Hell and can now pose as a living person to reap souls. (Unfortunately, they forgot to tell Sam.)

“When you signed the contract to hire me, in exchange for making your dreams come true, I secured your soul for Satan,” Elias said.

Jay tried to get out of it, saying he wanted to keep his soul, but Elias said, “What’s done is done.” He also warned Jay that he should enjoy “what little time” he had left to live. 

Jay insisted he was young, but Elias had some tricks up his sleeve. “You are young, but we have ways of speeding things along,” Elias said, before a chandelier dropped near Jay. “Hm. Rats. Thought I’d get him on the first try. Oh well. See you soon.”

With a target now on Jay, what comes next? GHOSTS showrunners Joe Port and Joe Wiseman spoke with Give Me My Remote about the deal with the devil, Pete (Richie Moriarty) and Alberta’s (Danielle Pinnock) long-awaited coupling, and more.

Starting with the lighter reveal: Pete and Alberta are something that you played the long game with. What made the time right to come back to them now?
Joe Port: Well, I think that theirs has been a story of kind of missed connections and being in different places at different times. One was face palming the other, and then a year later, being face palmed herself. Or two years later, I guess. But I think, finally, they were at a moment where they were open to…they’d done some self-growing, and were open to something with each other. 

Pete obviously heard what she had to say [to the ghosts about where she stood with their relationship] and then had to go take care of [his breakup with Donna] because he’s a good guy. He was not about to step out, as he was the victim of that himself. But I think they’re in a headspace where they want to give this a shot, even though the stakes are high. And if it doesn’t work out, that’s going to be awkward.

There has been so much build-up for them, and also for the audience. From what you know so far, what is the process like for them as they kind of navigate whatever this relationship is next?
Joe Wiseman: Well, that’s a good question—we start the writer’s room [soon]. But, obviously, with any sort of new relationship, there’s getting to know the person in that…context. So I think that’s going to be the gist of it.
Port: I think these are two people also who have had a kind of tumultuous romantic history in their other relationships and have been hurt. And it’s gonna be a test for them to see if they can trust and be in a relationship where they’re convinced that the other person really has their best interest at heart.

This is an environment where everyone is in everyone else’s business at every single moment of the day. What can you share about the fun that you’re hoping to have with everyone else’s take on this relationship blossoming?
Port: Yeah, that’s interesting. Well, first of all, how soon will this be made public? As you say, it’s everybody in everyone’s business. So that is something that you have to be very careful about within this house, when you share with each other.

To the more serious part of the cliffhanger. How much of a FINAL DESTINATION-like situation is next season going to be for Jay as he’s dodging death? 
Wiseman: I’m sure we’ll have some fun with that. But Sam and the ghosts basically have to figure out how to get Jay out of this mess. So I think most of the storytelling will be to that end. 

But it definitely does seem like a humorous situation he’s in—the very, very last moment of the [finale], even after Alberta and Pete kiss, is we hear Jay telling Sam he’s afraid to use the toaster. So they need to fix the situation because he’s in a very, very bad place.

I know you guys haven’t started the room yet, but is this something you anticipate being a season-long arc, a multi-episode arc, or somewhere in between? 
Port: That’s an interesting question. I don’t think we can say the answer to that today because that’s going to be revealed early on. I think we’ll see how long it takes.

You mentioned that Sam and the ghosts are going to be working on this. Will they be looping anyone else in to help them given how much the world has expanded in the past couple of years?
Wiseman: Until we sort of start hammering out the stories, we don’t have answers. But Patience is around, and she seems to have some sort of expertise in this area, so it wouldn’t shock me if she were at least a consultant to them.

This is something that could fundamentally change Jay, at least for a little bit. What do you anticipate the balance being in how he navigates this figurative sword dangling over his head?
Wiseman: I don’t think we’re going to hit the same drum beat too many times. So, I think we’ll have some fun with this situation, and hopefully we’ll figure out a path that they’re going to try to attempt to get him out of it. Whether that lasts a couple episodes or not, we’ll see. But I don’t think we’re going to fundamentally change Jay for a long period of time,
Port: But I do think this is a big turning point—he’s put up with a lot from the ghosts, and now it’s led to this. This isn’t some minor inconvenience. So, I think it’ll be interesting to see how Sam reacts to the ghosts, having put Jay in this position, and Jay, how he reacts. I just think this is a bit of a last straw in some ways, and it will affect some dynamics early on.

One of the interesting things that you guys have played with, especially in the last couple of episodes, is that we’ve seen the ghosts do things that have been arguably more selfish than normal. Not even in a malicious way, but their actions have had an impact on Sam and Jay in a more obvious way. What can you share about how the weight of this may be impacting Sam going forward? 
Wiseman: The ghosts are doing stuff all the time that does seem selfish and does blow things up. I think the trick with stories like that is you have to at least understand why the ghosts are doing what they’re doing. They’re not trying to be malicious—for story, you need conflict and you need people to either make mistakes or do something on purpose. So hopefully as they do this stuff…you may not agree with that, but you can at least understand what they’re trying to do or what their motivations are.

Sam, in theory, does have the luxury of being able to leave. What is the balance like for her as she figures out what is too much that she can bear?
Port: This was sort of a part of the pilot episode, or the second episode, at least: She could leave, but there’s ghosts everywhere. So not to put a pun on it, but these are the devils she knows, you know? And she definitely will be upset with them early on, but even if she’s upset, I think they can help her in this situation. And hopefully it’ll all work out for the best for them.

This is not a show that necessarily needs a long-term antagonist, but Elias certainly has still fit that bill. In your mind, is he kind of a series-long antagonist for our characters, or is that something that might get played out at some point in the next season or so, especially with the Jay of it all?
Port: He’s a definite foil, and he seems to just get worse and worse. [Both men laugh.] He’s a very likable actor, and people just seem to gravitate to Matt Walsh—us included. We’re huge fans of his, and he’s just able to make that kind of awful character very likable and winning. So we’d like to have as much Matt Walsh as we can. I don’t know if at some point they’ll be allies with him, or if he’ll always be a foil. But that’s fun stuff to talk about.

For as many things that have gone wrong, both Sam and Jay are in a better place, professionally, than they have been in a while. What can you share about how that may impact things for them next season?
Wiseman: Yeah, that’s the thing with the restaurant—[it’s a success] at what cost? We don’t know, assuming they’re able to get Jay out of this mess, where that’s going to leave the restaurant. But we’ve talked about different scenarios: Sometimes success can bring its own set of problems. There can be jealousy. There can be having to spend too much time working on something. We’ve thrown a lot of obstacles at their businesses, and they’re slowly overcoming them. But I think we can sort of anticipate more of the same.

This is a nerdy, technical question about the intricacies of a deal with the devil: In terms of Jay’s success, is there some sort of loophole if Jay can find success without Elias? Or is any success essentially damning him to Hell? 
Wiseman: I think that’s all stuff that we’re going to talk about when we convene the room: What are the rules of the situation that he finds himself in? So I don’t think we can answer those right now. We love talking about ghost rules and specific situations.
Port: We brought up “The Devil Went Down to Georgia” a lot in the room, and in that song, he has to play fiddle better than the devil to get his soul back. So all options are on the table. I don’t think we’re going to go that way, but that was an inspiration, obviously, for the title.

Looking at some of the new season 4 additions, Sass obviously found romance with Joan. What are your hopes for that relationship next season? 
Wiseman: Yeah, we would love to see more of Joan. We love the character and Taylor Ortega, who portrayed her. She was so funny and so talented. So we would definitely love to see as much of Joan as we can next season.
Port: Yeah, and the fact that she doesn’t have to be bound to the property is very convenient, obviously. We can have her come in and come out, and she can go be a series regular on her Netflix series…she’s very talented. 

We were auditioning people for that part, and we were sent this [old video] that she had just done for fun that wasn’t even for this part: Reading modern text in that old timey, 1940s, His Girl Friday, Mid Atlantic accent. And we’re like, “Oh my God, this is perfect.” And she’s so funny, and she knocked it out of the park.

We are in a position right now where there are a lot of seemingly happy couples on the show. As writers, are you content with that or should fans be bracing that maybe a couple of the couples will be going through a little bit of heartache and or roller coaster stuff next season?
Wiseman: Conflict makes good story. I think we can look forward to some stories that challenge characters who are in relationships and hopefully helps them grow a little bit.

Another new addition this season was Kyle (Ben Feldman), who can see ghosts. He was mentioned in the finale, and it seems like a useful tool to have at your disposal. What are your hopes or plans for bringing that character back?
Wiseman: We would love to see more of Kyle, and Ben, who plays Kyle, for sure. This is the first character in four seasons, other than Sam, who can see ghosts. So it does seem sort of a big deal. And it does seem like a handy character to sort of have around for stories every now and then.

GHOSTS, Thursdays, 8:30/7:30c, CBS

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